An Open Letter To Those Who Call Themselves ‘Christian’.

Dear US Christian Person

I would like to reassure you that your religious faith is not under fire from those of us who do not care to share it with you. We who have no religion don’t give a tinker’s cuss what you do, say, or practice, just so long as it doesn’t affect us.

Your ecclesiastical hierarchy want you to believe we are out to get you. It puts us in league with the Devil, against God, you could say – anti-Christ, or, for that matter, anti-Mohammed. Nothing is further from the truth.

Your politicians, who all rush to announce their religiosity with gusto, are quick to seek your vote by sowing the seeds of fear. Fear of religious suppression waiting to ensnare you; fear of a great army of sinful, leftist, degenerates about to engulf you.

You really shouldn’t listen to them. Your religion is as secure in the US today as it has always been.

I only wish the rights of we, the non-religious, were in equally safe hands.

I would like to know why you are hell-bent on forcing your beliefs and ideals on the rest of us? Perhaps you could explain why it’s so important for you to deny us, the non-believers, the scientific benefits from which, by virtue of your religion, you choose to abstain.

It’s simple to understand the motives of those in higher ecclesiastical authority. They wish to ensure the product they sell retains its ready market. Sowing fear, as Edward Bernays would have enthusiastically agreed, is a great way to market certain products: medicines, drugs, religion, etc..

It’s also a terrific means of coining votes, particularly when the politician in question can assure you that, if you vote for him, he’ll immediately make everything right again. Unfortunately, we all know the track record of politicians…

Politicians, bishops, and popes are really very transparent. They have ulterior motives. But what of you – the ‘Christian-in-the-street’, so to speak? Why are you so vociferous in condemning our beliefs, just because they don’t agree with yours?

If you are a woman who gives birth after a brutal, traumatizing, rape because you chose not to take the ‘morning-after’ pills offered by the hospital, or refused to have an abortion, will any of us non-believers stand outside your house with placards denouncing you for your beliefs?

If you believe your body was designed by God to be a ‘baby-factory’ and you produce ten or twelve off-spring in your fertile life, having denied yourself contraception, will we ostracize you for your choice?

How will it change your life if a man is allowed to marry another man, or a woman marry another woman, in a civil ceremony? After all, no-one’s suggesting they should get hitched in a church. Heaven forbid! So, why are you so vehemently opposed to people of the same sex, who love one another, getting married?

Please don’t give that trite response: the Bible forbids it. We don’t believe in your Bible, or Koran. Or, at least, if we do it’s only the part concerning the teachings of Jesus or Mohammed, about love and understanding, caring for others, and turning the other cheek. You know, the bits you tend to ignore.

There are many non-religious people, like myself, who have concerns over ‘late-term’ abortions. In all but the most extreme cases ‘late-term’ abortions are unnecessary. Sadly, in the United States, abortions considered ‘late-term’ i.e. twenty weeks and over, are much more prevalent than in more secular European countries.

The reason is simple: it’s your fault. Your religion’s interference in the affairs of others has made abortion much more difficult to obtain in America; you force young women to feel guilt, and the consequence is tardiness in seeking medical intervention. The freer attitudes in much of Europe – free, that is, from your religious intolerance – allow a woman to make the right decision at a much earlier stage.

Possibly your most hypocritical stance is the one you term, ‘Pro-Life’. With hindsight, I’d freely admit to being quite glad my parents didn’t have me aborted. But hindsight requires retrospective reflection, and retrospective reflection demands conscious memories to reflect on. I never had one conscious memory of the time in my mother’s uterus. I’ve never known one person who has. Have you?

Just how much life has a small bundle of cells one month, or even two, into gestation?

Take a look at the last image in the photograph above. A fetus at two months. It may look vaguely human, but in fact it’s barely half an inch long.

Here’s where your hypocrisy displays itself: you shout and scream and beat your breasts at the thought of an unconscious bundle of cells denied access to the world, yet you applaud with gusto those who did make it onto the planet, as they march off to some infernal foreign war, probably to be blown to pieces, so Halliburton can make more profits for its shareholders.

Please tell me why the life of a young adult is less valuable to you than something this <---> long and weighing under half an ounce?

While on the subject of war, America has had quite a lot of them of late. True Christians, those who cleave to the teachings of Jesus, are supposed to abhor war. Are you a real Christian? Or, have you just hijacked Jesus’s name to add credence to your over-inflated sense of nationalism?

You cheer wildly for your politicians when they make war-talk against another country – for example, Iran – but they talk that way just to persuade you to vote for them. Are you really so easily hoodwinked?

You are, of course, perfectly entitled to your beliefs. America constantly boasts to the rest of the world of its ‘freedoms’. The US Constitution gives legality to your beliefs.

What you choose to ignore, along with your ecclesiastical mentors and numerous right-wing politicians, is that the US Constitution bestows legality on my beliefs also. America is a cosmopolitan nation. Within its borders live people of many faiths, some like myself, with no defined faith at all. Much as you might like it to be so, America is not a ‘Christian’ country. It is not a theocracy. If you could get that fact into your heads, it’s likely you’d feel less threatened.

If you are a Christian person whom Jesus of Nazareth could be proud of, if you love your neighbor, and help the afflicted, feel sympathy for those worse off than yourself, and would willingly give succor to the poor, or, even if you are still trying vainly to attain those attributes, then this letter is not to you. Your values as a Christian are true to your religion.

To the rest of you, I’d really like to hear intelligent, logical, answers to the questions I’ve posted above. Go on, have a go. See if you can actually come up with a sensible argument to the points I’ve outlined. It shouldn’t be difficult. After all, you’ve dedicated your life (and thereafter) to these things. Surely, you must have very good reasons?

And who knows, you might even convert me.

R.S.V.P. (NOTE: Abusive, threatening, or idiotic responses will be deleted).

13 Replies to “An Open Letter To Those Who Call Themselves ‘Christian’.”

  1. Bravo (once again) RJ! This is right on point.

    “I only wish the rights of we, the non-religious, were in equally safe hands”

    I’ll second that!

  2. You are writing to the brainwashed, RJA, unfortunately. You will get tailormade biblical responses thrown at you. In a country where a president is frequently shown at church on his knees, or swearing on his holy book as he swears whatevers, you have a long slog ahead of you.
    It is unfortunate there are only selective so-called “rights” in the USA and very little indeed for LGBTs or those with uteri.
    XO
    WWW

  3. Here are a few things I want to point out:
    1) You say that a fetus isnt a person because “I(they) never had one conscious memory of the time in my(their) mother’s uterus.” Well, to counter that, have you had one concious memory when you were three years old? Or earlier than that, like the first week when you were born? If this is true, then is it ok to ‘abort’ during this time as well if the mother does not wish to have it anymore?

    2)As a Christian, I do abhor war. But sometimes it is necessary (using numerous references in the Bible, before and after New Testiment, that I do not wish to type out). Also, tell me of one war that America has started based on the sole opinion of christians? I believe that Congress, a variety of people of mixed races and beliefs, has to decide whether it is necessary.

    Do all christians support the wars that America engages in, such as the Iraq war? To this i also answer no, they do not, because every individual person has an opinion on what they think is right. Perhaps they believe that if the threat isnt taken out then they themselves or their family will be harmed in the near future. Perhaps they believe that going to war is only promoting further death and destruction of human lives. Either way, they do what they percieve to be right at the time. This is why we need to be wary of politicians, for if they can make a greed oil war appear like a rightous one against evil in the eyes of christians, then we have a serious problem. 🙂

  4. Every time I read this article i find somthing that I missed, it’s a good article!

    One of my best friends is a ‘Rape baby.’ Let me tell you that she is VERY happy to be alive, even though her biological father is locked up behind bars as a convicted rapist.

    I dont think a person should be forced to raise a baby if they are raped, but I also do not think they should be able to abort it either. Whether it is concious or not, it is still the creation of life, human life, that will be destroyed. That ‘fetus’ is growing and developing into somthing, or someone, amazing. Enough lives have been destroyed after a rape, we don’t need to end another.

    Mabye this is an instance where the government could subsidize the costs of this? Especially if the alleged rapist is convicted of the crime? Somthing should be done, but I do not think abortion should be, or has to be, the only way out for those traumatized women who do not wish to give birth to a baby.

    This is what I believe as a Christian and what others believe as athiests. It is a controversial issue that logic alone cannot solve, for there is no perfectly logical explanation to completely justify or unjustify it.

  5. Concerned Christian – thank you for your comments and I apologize for my tardiness in responding to them. Let’s examine the points you make:

    1. My personal memories of life began around the age of two years, though there are huge gaps. I believe some people may have slightly earlier memories. However, no-one is recorded as ever remembering their birth, or before. As birth must be a traumatic event for a child, non-recollection is indicative of non-awareness.

    Personally, I’m not an advocate of late-term abortion. I believe, as caring human beings, we need to draw the line somewhere, not for a child’s sake but for our own humanity. The well-being of the mother should be prime in any decision. It is not a matter for politics or religion, but medical experts and the mother of the fetus.

    The whole subject has more to do with the rights of a woman versus the rights, not of a child as most anti-abortionists contend, but of a potential new human life.

    I don’t care if ‘life’, as scientists define it, begins at conception, or not. It’s certainly not conscious human life as we know it. To place the rights of that ‘life’ before that of a conscious, living, breathing human being i.e. the mother, is to degrade the woman to nothing more than a baby machine.

    At this point, I will jump to your second comment re rape. You say no-one should be forced to raise a rape-baby, yet you would still suffer the woman to carry it for nine months, with all the attendant emotional anguish of watching the result of her brutal assault growing within her. Then, the trauma of birth and weeks of physical recovery. At what point would you have the child taken away, presumably to be fostered, placed in a ‘care home’ for adoption? Immediately it was born; three weeks later? At what point is this helpless victim, (and I refer to the woman, not the child) able to begin repairing her life? Perhaps your obviously humane and well-balanced Congress (a variety of people of mixed races and beliefs? I think not.) could pass legislation to decide how long this woman should be punished for allowing herself to be a victim?

    You make no mention of a rape victim’s family – husband, fiancee, boyfriend, other children? Presumably, you don’t consider them when forcing this woman to birth the result of a heinous crime?

    My point is not whether legal abortion is right or wrong (obviously, from a religious viewpoint, you and others consider it the latter) but whether you have any right to force your opinions, for that’s all they are, on those of us who do not share your belief system. By all means, carry your baby to term if you are brutally raped. I will not criticize you, nor will I lobby Congress to pass laws preventing you from doing so. Just don’t try and force any daughter, grand-daughter, wife, or other female relative of mine to your will.

    I’m happy for your friend, the result of a rape. If she’d been aborted, she wouldn’t now be happy. Neither would she be sad. She just wouldn’t exist. You would never have known her. If she’d had a soul, it would have gone to Jesus, so you believe. Would that have been so bad? I note you don’t mention her mother.

    When you move into the realm of government subsidies you really are in fairyland. It won’t happen. Governments are not benevolent organizations.

    2. On the subject of Christians and war, you ask for an example of one begun solely by Christians? My answer is: all of them. There are quite a few since 1950:

    1. Korean War (1950-1953)
    2. Vietnam War (1961-1975)
    3. Operation Urgent Fury-Grenada (1983)
    4. Operation Just Cause-Panama (1989)
    5. Operaton Desert Storm-Iraq (January and Febuary 1991)
    6. Operation Restore Hope-Somalia (1993)
    7. Operations in Europe-Bosnia (1990’s)
    8. Operation Enduring Freedom-Afghanistan (2001-present)
    9. Operation Iraqi Freedom-Iraq (2003-present)

    All authorized by Congress. Those politicians elected to Congress who are not confessed Christians can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Not one was a war in defense of the homeland. Despite their ‘patriotic’ propagandist titles they were all empire building wars.

    True Christians would rail against such wars. True Christians would practice what Jesus preached, not use his name to confer righteousness on the slaughter of others for political and economic gain.

    Jesus threw the merchants out of the Temple: “You have turned my Father’s house into a den of thieves.”

    As a Christian, you are ‘my Father’s house’. Yet you regularly invite in the thieves and despots of bishopry and political subterfuge who poison your mind and prevent you thinking for yourself. Jesus abhorred the religious bigots of the church, and the politicians of the day. He would never have let them warp his thinking the way Christians do constantly today.

    The letter I wrote was all about individual freedoms. I abhor the way Christians in America use the political system to force others, not of their belief, to conform to church ideology. It isn’t Christian ideology. Just read the teachings of Jesus if you’re in any doubt. And I suggest the oldest Bible you can find, not the latest ‘version’ put out by your church.

    Thank you again for your intelligent and stimulating comments. You haven’t managed to convert me, but then, I don’t think you ever imagined you would.

  6. I, myself, am a Christian. I believe as you do. I believe staunchly in the separation of church and state. I believe in a woman’s right to choose. I believe in marriage equality. I believe in the legalization of marijuana and prostitution. I catch a lot of heat from other Christians regularly. I’m told that I’m not a “real” Christian… that I’m rebellious, or of a reprobate mind. I could care less. I respect and judge no one… at least I try not to. I find that many Christians are hypocrites, prideful, arrogant, self-righteous and judgemental. Upon first impression, many Christians would count me out. I’ve been a Christian for 15 years. I’m tatted up and pierced. I don’t wear tailored suits to church. I wear jeans and converse. I’m a woman who has had two abortions during my early years… I used to be religiously blinded to this world. But God opened my eyes to TRUE LOVE. I’m happy to say that my daughter is a lesbian. I love her unconditionally. I love her girlfriend and I love that they are happy. She became fearful of what the “church” people would say about her and was afraid to go to church. I told her, “Honey, God IS love. Do you think he hates you or wants to punish you for loving someone? NO! There are murderers, child molesters and abusers, … etc.” The weight of religion today rests on division of a people. And manipulation of that people for fear, control and political gain. So many Christians cast their vote based on a candidates “professed” religious beliefs. My apologies for rambling but I want to let you know that all of us aren’t like that.

    Very respectfully,

  7. A Christian Hated by Christians – thanks for your forthright comment. I can only say you seem a way more sincere Christian than any who grace the Halls of Political or Religious Power.

  8. Ok, in regards to this comment.

    . On the subject of Christians and war, you ask for an example of one begun solely by Christians? My answer is: all of them. There are quite a few since 1950:

    1. Korean War (1950-1953)
    2. Vietnam War (1961-1975)
    3. Operation Urgent Fury-Grenada (1983)
    4. Operation Just Cause-Panama (1989)
    5. Operaton Desert Storm-Iraq (January and Febuary 1991)
    6. Operation Restore Hope-Somalia (1993)
    7. Operations in Europe-Bosnia (1990?s)
    8. Operation Enduring Freedom-Afghanistan (2001-present)
    9. Operation Iraqi Freedom-Iraq (2003-present)

    All authorized by Congress. Those politicians elected to Congress who are not confessed Christians can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Not one was a war in defense of the homeland. Despite their ‘patriotic’ propagandist titles they were all empire building wars.

    This statement is ridiculously judgmental and unfair. You, just like many other groups (“Christians” definitely included) are judging the whole of Christianity, based on what a minority who claim to be Christian do.

    http://youtu.be/y4P2O8UjQeU
    This is a pretty good link on You-Tube check it out, and no I’m not a You-Tube surfer that thinks he’s an expert on conspiracies.

    To say that Christians are the cause for war is just more modern hate mongering towards Christians, our culture’s atmosphere IS anti-god and anti-christian. It’s like you (atheists/agnostics etc) think you have a higher perception on life than we do, and our religious leaders are just trying to create zombies that only do their will. That mentality is the same one that Hitler had about the Jews in Germany, that the Jews were Greedy inferior people that couldn’t see the forest for the trees.

    The issue of gay marriage is actually pretty simple, marraige isn’t specifically defined in the bible as between a man and a woman, but sexual immorality is, and from Malachi 2:14 we see that marriage is a holy covenant before God. So the general consensus (which I totally agree with) is that marriage is supposed to be between a man and woman. the scriptural examples encourage believers to enter into marriage in a way that honors God’s covenant relationship, submits to the laws of God first and then the laws of the land, and gives public demonstration of the holy commitment that is being made. So how then, can we be submitting to God’s law if we are breaking his statutes about sexual immorality. Leviticus 18:22 “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind it is abomination.” And with lesbians Romans 1:24-27 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. FOR THEIR WOMEN GAVE UP THEIR NATURAL RELATIONS FOR THAT WHICH IS CONTRARY TO NATURE; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. You see, just like atheists that get angry and feel oppressed when they see or hear religious stuff in public places, WE feel oppressed when you say that WE and OUR RELIGION must honor the things that we don’t consider to be the same thing. Marriage is between a man and woman so call it something different. There are going to be losses and victories on BOTH sides of that issues when it’s called a Union or whatever else. I can’t see it being fair for gay people OR my fellow believers to say only one side of the issue should get everything they want. If the government classifies it as equal to a marriage in every way then how is it not equal to a marriage? And please don’t tell me that defining this issues as best solved with a ‘separate but equal’ is somehow akin to the civil rights struggles for black people, that era IS over with. And the government IS closely watched with civil rights issues now by ALL races so that argument is ridiculous. Gay people deserves insurance etc but to force my religion to accept something we don’t accept is called OPPRESSION. If atheist can say that the ten commandments just sitting on the outside wall is somehow oppressing them, then how is it unfair for the people that choose to follow God for us to say you can’t force us to change our religious views… Suffice to say, unless God himself comes down and changes everyones mind on his own, NO side is going to really get everything they want on this issue. Call it a Union and classify it as legally different but legally equal to a marrriage and both sides will at least get SOME of what they want out of this issue instead of our Congress wasting time and money on this issue.

    But on to the issue of abortion. Are you saying that the fact that we are only 1/2 an inch tall means we are less human at that stage? That is very callous attitude toward the sanctity of life. Just like the woman above who stated her friend was a “rape baby” and her mother didn’t have her aborted, that person didn’t get to choose their circumstances before birth, why should her life be deemed less valuable or less worthy of a long life? You never really answered the other point that when a person is a toddler either, should that count too? They don’t have memories, they have less developed emotions, and they don’t contribute to society, what makes an less cognitive child outside the womb more worthy of life? Or is it just a little more difficult to find a doctor that believes it’s still, by then, the mothers “rights”?

    We could really be preventing them from living a hard life, that’s totally true. But even further, why are we letting the elderly sit in nursing home beds that have dementia etc suffer? I think the logic of not having an attention span fits perfectly there too, doesn’t it? Or what about all those folks with mental disabilities, they can’t think clearly and some of them even need CONSTANT care, should we just go ahead and do them that favor too? I know you can see where I am going, but I’ll say it anyway. Who in their right mind, can literally put a line in the sand on the value of HUMAN LIFE?

    On the issue of Suffering of the Mother or the child isn’t an excuse to murder it, and the fact that “forcing a woman to suffer through it is making the woman a baby machine”‘

    I TOTALLY agree, a woman in America or anywhere else for that matter shouldn’t have to suffer. They deserve counseling and WHATEVER else they need, especially if they wouldn’t be able to emotionally attach to her child from rape, that’s just plain old common sense. It would undoubtedly lead to a great deal of emotional trials for both the child AND the mother. But that just brings up another problem with this issue, are we (meaning the human race not just America) really going to start deciding it’s better to kill a human than to allow a person to suffer? I know that might sound ALL KINDS OF JACKED UP, but think about it. If you knew that every person born was going to have to deal with some kind of serious form of abuse when they were born until they were at an age to change their own situation, would you tell everyone to stop having kids because life was going to be just too hard for them and their families to deal with? I totally agree that we shouldn’t have to deal with so much problems, but that is a problem with society as a whole and you can’t fix those kinds of problems with murder a child that didn’t choose his/her conception to come from rape. Women should be able to get free medical care and everything else they need and the people born into that particular situation (rape babies) have a uniquely difficult one along their mothers. But are those sufferings worse than the child who is given everything financially, but sexually/physically abused, or left to nannies etc because their parents don’t care enough to raise them on their own? It seems like you are saying that suffering is a state of being, and that once in that state it doesn’t end nor can people overcome it.

    I know their are wealthy kids in America that are completely alone and just want someone to really care about them but they suffer and when they get older, do one of a few things; move past it and become better parents, do the same thing to their kids, or look at life (it seems somewhat similiar to your views in my opinion) like it’s just not worth it for people to suffer and choose not to bring children into this world. What about the kids that don’t have money, and their parents (meaning two consenting adults) either didn’t want them from the beginning, or the parents went through troubles and now blame their problems on the fact that they had kids too early etc… I have close family that are sadly still dealing with the effects of their parents not doing a good job raising them and essentially acting (in actions not in words) like they didn’t really ever want them. They went through foster care and all, do you think they were better off aborted? Or since they made it past a certain point were they sufferings AND their parents somehow no longer relevant? Some of them can’t seem to get off drugs long enough to think straight, much less pull themselves out of their situations.

    I know my examples aren’t perfect but my point is that LIFE in general is hard, and we should ALL be willing to stand up and better our own. I have white trash tattooed down the back of my arm because that is what my family is, most don’t care very much about anything but the “right here and now” and most refuse to stand up and say they really CAN change their situation in life, they seem to let their scenarios define who they are… Is that YOUR logic too? I even went through some periods that I really despised who I was and would’ve given anything to be someone different.

    It is a difficult and sad situation no matter what side of the isle you are standing in this situation, ESPECIALLY outside of our own country. But to say that we are more or less valuable as a human being depending on what we have cognitively, or whether a mother suffers emotionally and physically is yet another step towards a society that really does “put people out of their misery”…

    But now for my own questions, and these aren’t anything particular…
    I know we crazy Christians can’t force you to see that proof of creation abounds around you. No matter what points are brought up or what logic we use, people ultimately don’t want to believe in a God that will not come down and save them from ourselves… Even though that is what the bible tells us, that Yahweh is God and we must live in faith (which ISN’T just confessing words it’s a lifestyle) in him because he made us and that was how he wanted us to live. IN FAITH we know that he will take care of us if we believe in him and that if we do suffer he sees and when we suffer with faith we are rewarded later whether in the life after this one or this life… But I contend this, what if all (every person on earth i mean) of us got down on our hands and knees and spoke to the one god of heaven and earth with one voice. And said we don’t understand but we want to try… Genuinely I mean, in our minds and hearts we were all to say, and we all spoke something like; Ok God, I’m gonna try to seek you, I need guidance because God, I really don’t know how to do this without you. What if we all prayed to Yahweh in his sons name and asked for redemption in the blood of his son Yeshuah (jesus for you that only study the protestant outlookof Christianity) and actually lived the way he commanded us to live… That is, WITHOUT sexual immoralities (sorry not trying to be mean Mrs/Miss Christian Hated by Christians, just speaking what the bible says). What if we lived WITH ONE LAW, following all the statues (feast days/sabbaths/dietary laws) he commanded aside from the offerings that were finally ended with our Christ’s death (there was initially one law for Adam, if you broke his one law you had to die, ie the payment for sin was death).

    What would you do if the whole world changed? I’m not saying would you believe if the clouds parted and huge miracles were seen all over the world, but would you believe in God, the Judaic/Christian Elohim of the OLD and New Testament, if the entire world saw changes of a better life, nothing monumental,just people beginning to come together and their lives still farming etc, if things got easier? Would you believe then? Or would you rather (this what I have seen and it SEEMS like its a consensus on your side of the isle) live a life that is focused on the here and now; primarily chasing the things that we can see, touch, taste, hear, and smell. I guess what I’m trying to ask is what WOULD it take to make you believe in God?

    I’ve the gift of a truly personal experiences and I will never stop believing in our God, and his son, no matter what ‘evidence’ is brought forward saying he isn’t real. But, that is the whole idea of faith, faith isn’t supposed to come from him showing us miracles every generation just to prove he’s still(or in OUR cultures case always has been)here. It is the true faith without works that our lord wanted us to live by and what Jesus preached, he healed people not just to prove he was the son of God (there was a large amount of prophecies he fulfilled even before he started healing people), but because he loved us and he really WANTED to heal those that had faith through their troubles. ie. the woman that bled for twelve years, all she did was touch his garmet (tzizit or tallit, I’m not really sure which you have read the Hebrew scriptures to really know, which HAVEN’T changed, that’s just ANOTHER one of the misconceptions out there) and she was healed… He didn’t even know who is was that the power of God healed at first. When it happened he said he felt power leave from him and wanted to know who it was. Again what would it take for you too believe in god, and the things he teaches us in the scriptures?

  9. William – thank you for your interesting comment on Sparrow Chat. You misunderstood my response to ‘Concerned Christian’ on the subject of war. I wasn’t suggesting that all wars are started by Christians. It so happens that all of America’s wars, since 1950, have been, but my point was that anyone who follows the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth could never, and certainly should never, start a war. His followers would have loved him to start a war against the Romans occupying their lands, but he refused: “Render unto Caesar…”; “Love thine enemies…”; “Turn the other cheek…”, etc..

    It was not an unfair or judgmental statement, it’s merely a statement of fact, based on the words written in your Christian Bible.

    To suggest that atheists and agnostics feel and act similarly towards Christians as Hitler did to the Jews, smacks of paranoid insecurity. No-one has any desire to herd you into concentration camps for your beliefs. Religious freedom is an enshrined right in this country, but conversely, so is the right to freedom from religion. By that I mean absolutely no interference in the affairs of government by any religious body, be it Christian or otherwise. To campaign politically for religious beliefs to become law is to turn democracy into theocracy.

    You begin your argument against the right of gay people to marry by quoting from the Christian Bible. Immediately, your advocacy collapses. Non-religious people don’t believe in the Christian Bible. At best, they view it as a collection of myths and fairytales, coupled with some rather haphazerd ancient Middle Eastern history. Some, like myself, do think Jesus of Nazareth, whether real or fictional, had some pretty sane ideas about how we should all live our lives and get on together, but the notion he was (or is) divine, frankly has no more credibility to me than that Santa Claus is alive and well and living in Lapland.

    No-one is suggesting you should break your God’s law. Neither is anyone suggesting you are required to honor what is foreign to your beliefs. Just don’t judge others (‘Judge not, that ye be not judged’ – yes, I’ve read the Bible on a number of occasions) who happen to believe differently, or, attempt to force your beliefs on them.

    Paul’s First Epistle to the Romans was written many years after Jesus of Nazareth was purportedly crucified. The quote you gave was from a man of Pharisaic background. Little wonder he wasn’t enamored of homosexuality. He never knew Jesus. If he had, his views of homosexuality may have been more forgiving (“Let he who has never sinned, cast the first stone.”). Religious scholars argue to this day on the interpretation of Paul’s text, based on 1 Corinthians 6, and 1 Timothy 1, some suggesting it may have referred exclusively to homosexual prostitution.

    Many Americans today are in favor of legalizing gay marriage, but no-one is forcing you, or other Christians, to accept the concept. It would be very wrong to enact a law forcing churches to marry gay people. That will never happen. ‘Marriage’ is not solely the prerogative of the church. More people are married today in a non-religious environment (registry office, gov’t licenced premises, etc) than are married in church. Christians don’t object to that. Gay people simply want that same legal right, and in that context, Christians (or those of any other religious persuasion) have absolutely no right to object.

    It’s not a question of ‘taking sides’, William. It’s all about freedom. You have the freedom to worship the deity of your choice and beliefs. That’s only right, and everyone should respect that right and decry neither your beliefs nor your right to believe as you choose, provided – and this is the most important part of the issue – that you don’t attempt to force those beliefs on others in a manner detrimental to their way of life.

    Preventing gay people from enjoying the same rights and privileges in law as heterosexual couples is doing exactly that – forcing your beliefs and practices on those in society who have no wish to share them.

    On the subject of abortion, I’ll be brief. Unlike many Christians, I believe it is the right of every person to have total control over their own body. I believe they have the right to take their own life (suicide) from that body, should they choose to do so. I believe they have the right to fill that body with whatever drugs they choose (though, not necessarily the right to society repairing the damage caused, if they abuse them). I also believe a woman has the right to the removal of something growing in her own body that she doesn’t want to be there, whether it be a cancerous growth, or a fetus. I also believe both women and men have the right to take whatever steps necessary to prevent a fetus from growing there in the first place i.e. birth control.

    The Christian viewpoint (and I mean ‘societal’, not personal, as I know individual Christians have differing views) is that neither is acceptable. It must be left to ‘God’ to decide if a woman should become pregnant, or not. That (in my view) malevolent attitude has caused more deaths and suffering in the third world than any war or conflagration ever did.

    You ask me what it would take for me to assume a Christian belief system. I was brought up in the Christian faith. Like you, I experienced a ‘life defining moment’ when I was younger, so much that I seriously considered a career in the Christian church.

    Then, I began to research the history of Christianity, not as its written in the Bible, but how it spread from its beginnings in Palestine, via Rome, and across Europe. I discovered it to be a propagation of sheer terror and oppression – a horrible history of torture and slaughter.

    The idea of apostles spreading the word to a grateful world is no more than a myth. Christianity, as with most religions, was forced on the populace by powerful men who had much to gain from it.

    If a god did create this world and all that is in it, then I would not wish to spend ten seconds in his presence, let alone eternity. To expect his creations to suffer, many abominably, in order to achieve some distant afterlife reward smacks of sadism. The god of the Old Testament was uncaring, unfeeling, barbarous, and sadistic in the extreme. I’m truly happy I am now totally convinced he does not exist.

    I don’t need faith in a god before I can love my neighbor, to treat people as I would wish them to treat me. I can do and feel those things without requiring a heavenly afterlife as a reward.

    Planet Earth has evolved over four and half billion years into a thing of great beauty. We have evolved into creatures hellbent on its destruction, to satiate our eternal lust for power and greed.

    I see no god in the picture. I hope I never do.

    Nevertheless, William, I respect your beliefs and those of all ‘true’ Christians. Many do wonderful work, especially in third world countries, without becoming bogged down in the theological quicksands of abortion, contraception, and gay marriage.

    Thank you for your comment.

  10. i have a lot of period day and my little tiniest embryo inside, and i feels what baby is fine now. blood and baby with in my pregnant for seven days to one weeks.

  11. Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Matthew 7:14

    I pray you and those who agree with you, find it.

    For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s.

    Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

    Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

    Rom 14:11 For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

    Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

  12. Daisy – thank you for your wise words. Oh no, sorry, they’re not your wise words, are they? You’ve merely quoted from some old texts of dubious origin, written at earliest nearly a hundred years after the subject matter was supposedly crucified.
    What you believe is your own concern, but please do not pray for me. Your unwarranted interference in my destiny is precisely the subject of my post.

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